Following are excerpts from a conversation between Senior MBAs, MBAs and wannabe MBA graduates. I found it interesting and also a little enlightening. So I thought I should share it on my blog:
The emails are in chronological order...
1. S:
Subject: Europe Vs America(Read USA)
Hi
I see a lot of questions related to European universities vs American Universities in the groups. I do not have any good story on that but I have come across this wonderful article about Europe Vs America in general..
The author in the article has explained it all in this link http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17726 . I am sure this would clear a lot of questions about the comparison
Regards
S
Replies to the above email follow..
2. Anup:
Subject: Europe Vs America(Read USA) - A Rebuttal
I read this article with interest. Thanks for sharing it. However, while it does its share of global MBA bashing, the article does not focus on the reasons why we gather on our forums here. I offer a few:
Having experienced working in Europe and the US, I can speak for both continents.
if you get an MBA, and want to use the MBA, the US really allows one to push the limits of one's capabilities. I do wonder why America cannot produce good coffee, and why so many young blacks end up in prison.
But there are some other facts that we should consider:
America does lead the way in corporate and personal giving (Europe outside of the UK has little or no corporate giving although individuals are quite charitable)
It is a nation where most people do want to get married and raise children (and do so at a very high rate) thereby emphasizing the importance of both family and religion
I have European friends who came here, and had handicapped children and are amazed by the wealth of options for unfortunate children - social services for children in this country are simply unmatched in Europe
If you have medical insurance you will get the best healthcare in the world.
It has created a galaxy of Indian achievers while Europe has largely failed because of the low glass ceilings almost everywhere
While blacks are imprisoned in large numbers due to a combination of slavery, guns and drugs, and racism and racial profiling is a reality, a black man is President (something that is unlikely to happen in Europe)
Several famous American institutions have been run by Indians or have Indians at very senior levels (Citigroup, Merrill Lynch Investment Bank, McKinsey) and most have Indians at top levels, we are hardpressed to find anyone at a European institution
Rarely do I find any Indian living his or her life in Europe ever say that they are proud to be French or British or German. In the US it is pretty common to find Indians who came here and will say that.
While Europeans get charity, America invented social entrepreneurship. This movement is changing the way we think about poverty. Global Health is a movement that is being driven out of technology that immigrants are building here, to help change the way things work in India
Europe is so much fun if you don't aspire to go far professionally - because there are so many hangups with Europe (Its because it is such an old civilization, who you are, where you grew up, who you know matters so much more). But if you want to reach for the stars with your MBA or your PhD, win a Nobel Prize, or run a multibillion dollar corporation, then go to America.
All is not perfect with America. It will never be, but it strives to do good. Its a chaotic country where surprisingly, even with the great social inequalities of the nation, people generally follow the law. Europe has good coffee and good art, and a life of leisure. Its closer to India, prettier looking,. While learning about fine cheese and wine, and speaking a new language, one can start to mistake those things for what truly matters in life - being accepting of people around you, the importance of family, God, honest hard work, and building and making things that will move the global civilization forward.
:-)
Anup
3. Raul:
Re: Subject: Europe Vs America(Read USA) - A Rebuttal
A European (British) company with an Indian origin chap at the helm in the recent past would be Vodafone.. although one could of course argue that Arun Sarin rose through the ranks in the US (before becoming the Vodafone CEO, he headed Vodafone US for a few years along with being in the top echelons of other US telecom players)
I don't have enough knowledge about the boards of the top companies of the world to be able to comment on whether this is an exception rather than the rule. But Vodafone quickly hit me when I read the mail below, so I thought I'd mention it :)
Regards
Raul
4. Anup:
Re: Subject: Europe Vs America(Read USA) - A Rebuttal
Arun Sarin is an American citizen...
5. Raul:
Re: Subject: Europe Vs America(Read USA) - A Rebuttal
Yes, all those caveats were attached with my email. He is an American citizen but he's also a first generation Indian from IIT-KGP who then went to Haas etc. I got the impression (perhaps my bad) that you were saying that European companies (thanks to their culture etc) have an inbuilt glass ceiling against outsiders rising to the top and it seemed to me that Mr Sarin's example was at least an exception to that. I completely agree there will always be exceptions and maybe the Americal seal on his passport made the difference, maybe Vodafone is a different kind of company, I have no idea :)
There are other examples as well, LN Mittal perhaps..
Also, to put my GMAT analysis essay practice to good use, India has been sending a larger ratio of its smarter kids to the US compared to Europe over the past half century. Even the gross numbers are higher but the divide becomes really, really big if you start looking at "smarter" kids, perhaps differentiating by their undergrad college. As a disclaimer, I haven't actually crunched the numbers but this seems like a fairly obvious fact to me. Sampling just my batch at BITS, hardly anyone went to Europe.
Some go for an MBA, others go for an MS and stick around for an MBA. (I'm only talking of MBAs since this is a MBA forum). US has been (and still is in some ways) the land of hope for the whole world, India is no different. Thirty years ago, everyone knew Harvard Business School, who knew INSEAD? So I think it's only natural that the number of Indian origin people making a mark in world business through the USA track is going to be higher. Some of the top b-schools in Europe (Judge, Said etc) are also relatively new, they were set up in the 90s, maybe their gradutes haven't yet gotten the time you need to rise to the top of your industry!
I haven't worked in either Europe or US so I can speak for neither continents :). But just taking the rebuttal at face value, I feel that some portions of the rebuttal can be rebutted as well! I'd love to discuss this further and perhaps get to know the opinion of others as well because the objective of this exercise is to learn from the experiences of others in the group, who have seen more of the world than I have :)
In good faith, meaning well and a little tongue-in-cheek,
Raul
6. AD:
Re: Subject: Europe Vs America(Read USA) - A Rebuttal
I realize that this is not adding much to our forum ...... but ...
I have to agree with a lot of what Anup says. Having lived here for over 10 years, at a professional level there is very little by way of glass ceiling. It is truly remarkable how free a business community America provides. And the US remains at the cutting edge of management science, so if you want to do an MBA and see the impact of it, the US is quite the place to be.
But lets also be real ... corporate giving is more often than not a facade, a sort of jail pass, a PR tool and a smoke screen. A way to convince ourselves and more importantly policy makers, that we're not so greedy after all! :) True charity, like truly nefarious things are done in quiet. Beware the corporation that advertises how amazingly giving it is. What is the point anyways? Why should corporations "give", when corporations are owned by shareholders? Surely the shareholders could make better choices reg where the money ought to go. This is not to say that corporate charity is always a bad thing, but lets also not kid ourselves silly.
And also, America strives to do good? Anup, I respect you so much but that came out of left field. Yes, America does do good from time to time, but America for all its wonders is also the world's most hegemonistic country, and its quite amazing how clueless the average American is about that. How many canards have been sold in the name of "doing good" or "spreading freedom across the world". Its remarkable how *easily* Americans are able to shurg off 100s of thousands of innocent lives that have been sacrificed in the name of "freedom" (read" OIL). The white man's burden all over again. The American dream is truly remarkable and yet we have to face that the sustenance of the American dream is also inextricably linked to several dreams being crushed around the world on a daily basis.
Having ranted about this, I have to say that America still gives us hope that the system allows change to happen. I'm yet to see the change at a fundamental level, but change can be affected here in small arenas, unlike some other countries where there is absolutely no hope. And that alone is cause for cheer.
If I sound cynical. I'm happy to discuss this 1on1 with anyone who thinks I'm completely deluded.
AD
7. RT:
Re: Subject: Europe Vs America(Read USA) - A Rebuttal
Raul, I think there are some valid points in your argument but when you say Europe, I'd like you to exclude UK out of it and consider only mainland Europe.
The examples you've given - Vodafone, Mittal Steel are both UK-based companies and owing to our colonial history, there's a prominent presence of Indians in the UK, with some of them even in the British Parliament.
I think everyone remembers Arcelor board's reaction and the fuss created by the Luxembourg and French governments when Mittal Steel tried to takeover Arcelor, just because it was an "Indian" company, and even though Mittal Steel had the ability to acquire the whole company, they only managed to create a merger, whereas I guess it was a different scenario in the case of Corus Steel's acquisition by Tata Steel.
So, atleast for us, Europe and UK aren't the same.
--
Regards
RT
8. Raul:
Re: Subject: Europe Vs America(Read USA) - A Rebuttal
Ah yes... like I said before, I haven't worked in either Europe or USA but this makes plausible sense to me. I've seen language barriers bringing with it baggage of other kinds even in India.
Thanks!
Regards
Raul
End.....
